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1. Abel D. Chase, 2 May 1879
Wilhelm Ritter von Wymetal, Joseph Smith, the Prophet, His Family and His Friends (Salt Lake City: Tribune Printing and Publishing Co., 1886)
I was well acquainted with the Smith family, frequently visiting the Smith boys and they me. I was a youth at the time from twelve to thirteen years old, having been born Jan. 19, 1814, at Palmyra, N.Y. During some of my visits at the Smiths, I saw a STRANGER there WHO THEY SAID WAS MR. RIGDON. He was at Smith's several times, and it was in the year of 1827 when I first saw him there, as near as I can recollect. (3:137)
2. John H. Gilbert, Letter to James T. Cobb, 14 October 1879
Last evening, I had about 15 minutes conversation with Mr. Lorenzo Saunders of Reading, Hillsdale Co. Mich. He has been gone about thirty years. He was born south of our village in 1811, and was a near neighbor of the Smith family - knew them all well; was in the habit of visiting the Smith boys; says he knows that RIGDON was hanging around Smith's for EIGHTEEN MONTHS PRIOR TO THE PUBLISHING OF THE MORMON BIBLE. (2:529)
3. John H. Gilbert, Interviewed by William H. and Edmund L. Kelley, 1881
How do you account for the production of the Book of Mormon, Mr. Gilbert, then, if Joseph Smith was so illiterate?"Well, that is the difficult question. It must have been from the Spaulding romance - you have heard of that, I suppose. The parties here then never could have been the authors of it, certainly. I have been for the last forty-five or fifty years trying to get the key to that thing; but we have never been able to make the connecting yet. For some years past I have been corresponding with a person in Salt Lake, by the name of Cobb, who is getting out a work against the Mormons; but we have never been able to find out what we wanted."
If you could only connect Sidney Rigdon with Smith some way, you could get up a theory.
"Yes; that is just where the trouble lies; the manuscript was put in our hands in August, 1829, and all printed by March, 1830, and we can not find that Rigdon was ever about here, or in this State, until sometime in the Fall of 1830. But I think I have got a way out of the difficulty now. A fellow that used to be here, by the name of Saunders, Lorenzo Saunders, was back here some time ago, and I was asking him about it. At first he said he did not remember of ever seeing Rigdon until after 1830 sometime; but after studying it over a while, he said it seemed to him that one time he was over to Smiths, and that there was a stranger he never saw before, and that they said it was Rigdon. I told him about Cobb, of Utah, and asked him if he would send his affidavit that he saw Rigdon before the book was published, if he (Cobb), would write to him; he finally said he would, and I wrote to Cobb about it, and gave Saunders' address, and after a long time, I got a letter from him, saying he had written three letters to Saunders, and could get no answer. I then sat down and wrote Saunders a letter myself, reminding him of his promise, and wrote to Cobb also about it; and after a long time Cobb wrote me again, that Saunders had written to him; but I have never learned how satisfactory it was, or whether he made the affidavit or not." (2:110)
4. John H. Gilbert, Letter to Thomas Gregg, 19 June 1881
I told Kelley I thought the Spaulding MS. was the foundation of the M[ormon]. B[ible]., and gave him my reasons for thinking so. The long paragraph in relation to Mr. Cobb and Lorenzo Saunders is a mixed mess of truth and falsehood. When I asked Mr. S. if he knew whether Rigdon was hanging around Smith previous to the publication of the M. B., he said, "Yes, at least eighteen months before." There was no hesitancy about it; and this is what I told Kelly. You can see how he reported the matter. (2:531)
5. Lorenzo Saunders, Affidavit with William H. Kelley, 20 September 1884
q Did you ever see Sidney Rigdon in the neighborhood where you lived previous to the 1830?a In March 1827 about the middle of the month, I went over to Joe Smiths to eat sugar; and as I went over I saw five or six men standing and Talking. One was well dressed. They were about twenty rods from Smith's house
q Did you know their names.
a Yes. It was Peter Ingersol, Samuel Lawrence, George proper, the old Man Rockwell -- Father of Port Rockwell and the well dressed man. They stood ten rods from the road. When I got to the house Harrison told me it was Sidney Rigdon. i.e. The well dressed man
q Did you see him after that previous to the year 1830?
a Yes. I saw him in the fall - 1827 -- just before Joseph went to Pennsylvania. Peter Ingersol and I met him in the road between Palmyra and Ingersols. I never saw him any more until he came to Palmyra to preach the Mormon Bible. (2:128-29)
q Are you acquainted with Major Gilbert of Palmyra. a. Yes. Four years ago I went to Palmyra to see my brothers, and I met Gilbert. He wanted to know if I remembered seeing Sidney Rigdon in that neighborhood previous to 1830 when he come preaching the Mormon Bible. He said Abel Chase testified that he thought he saw Rigdon before that time but was not certain. Says I to Gilbert Sidney Rigdon was about Smiths before 1830 in my opinion. Gilbert then asked me if I would make affidavit that I saw Rigdon at Smiths before that time -- 1830? I told him I would think the matter over. After awhile I think I told him that I would. After I got home a while I received a letter from Cobb of Salt Lake. Gilbert wrote to Cobb and gave him my address. I wrote to Cobb the next Spring. Gilbert wrote to me I think in November after I returned home asking why I did not answer Cobbs letter. While I was writing an answer to Cobb's first letter my house caught fire and burnt. Burnt up every thing I had and there was no insurance. Lost a thousand dollars. I was some time thinking the matter over before writing to Cobb as requested by Gilbert and during that time my house was burnt. It had been a long time since those transactions and it was difficult to fix dates, But I have it now so that I can tell it right off. (2:142-43)
q How did you fix the date that you saw Sidney Rigdon at Smiths previous to 1830?
a When I was talking with Gilbert and told him I would think the matter over and see if I could make affidavit and I fixed the time in my mind by remembering that I had gone over there to eat sugar.
q Was Peter Ingersol and Samuel Lawrence acquainted with Sidney Rigdon?
a Yes. they were both acquainted with him in 1827. Sam Lawrence took Joe over into Pennsylvania and gave him a better education. I saw Rigdon in 1830 preach with the Bible in one hand and the book of Mormon in the other, and he said the Bible is now fulfilled and done away and the Book of Mormon was to take its place.
q What kind of a woman was Joseph's wife.
a Joseph's wife was a pretty woman. Just as pretty a woman as I ever saw. When she come to the Smith's she was disappointed and used to come down to our house and sit down and cry. Said she was deceived and got into a hard place. -- When I was down to see my Brothers four years ago in a conversation with Gilbert when I first got there, it was then he said that he did not know that Sidney Rigdon was ever here previous to 1830. He believed he was, but they had no evidence. He said they had been studying on it for 35 or 40 years but they could not get the evidence. Said if they could only make that point the fraud would come out. He said he could come the nearest proving it by Able Chase but he was not certain. When I got ready to come home (was there three weeks) Gilbert said he wanted to see me before I left. He was working on the Canal. He came to me as I was about to start home and it was then that I told him that I had thought the matter over and made up my mind that I could swear that I saw Rigdon in the neighborhood in the Spring of 1827. That is what he wanted I should write Cobb. This conversation was in Palmyra in front of John Saunders store. (2:144)
6. Lorenzo Saunders, Interviewed by E. L. Kelley, 12 November 1884
E.L.K. How soon after Joseph Smith claimed to have received the revelation did you see Rigdon?Mr.S. It was in the spring I went there to eat sugar. Samuel Lawrence went with me; There was 4 or 5 men making sugar; Their camp was right on the farm; They made several thousands pounds of sugar; You see there was a bounty in the state of New York & they was making a great deal of sugar & they had several boiling places & emploied some men; The men that was there stood down by the fence; There was Peter Ingersoll; Peter's now dead. he died near Pontiac. His land joined the Smith farm on the north. Well he was at work there, & he came there & he was in this group with them, & Samuel Lawrence & there was the old man Rockwell; father to Port Rockwell. And one George Proper. I do not know Whether he came to Kirtland or not. Della was baptized before they left.
E. L. Kelley How did they happen to be all together there?
Mr. S. There was George Proper & Rockwell I supposed there were men to work for them in the sugar bush; I never asked any questions about his help. Samuel Lawrence came along & I went to the house. And there was a man better dressed than the rest come along up to smiths & Stood out door. I says, to Hiram Smith what well dressed man is that that stood out there? And he said, it was Sidney Rigdon. This was in the time of making sugar along in march about the 10th or 15th, & they was in full blast & they used to invite us over to eat sugar. They made sugar every year.
E.L.K. How are you enabled to identify the time
Mr. S. Because, I know it was before Jo. claimed to have taken the plates from the hill Cummorah. And there was some two or three of us traveled that ground over, & we could not find a hole. There was a great raft of them digging for money. (2:150-52)
E.L.K. By what train of circumstances, Mr. Saunders, can you tell the exact time, you first saw Sydney Rigdon there?
Mr. S. At first I told him [John H. Gilbert] I could not remember exactly, but says I look here I will go back to my brother's house, (Orlan), & he will jog my memory & in this way I will be able to get at it. I talked with Able Chase & spoke to him about it. He finally says: you have got the book of Book of Mormon the first book in your brothers house. And I wanted it & tried to get the it I wanted to fetch it home with me but he said he wanted to keep it while he lived. And after taking the dates I had forgot what year the book was printed in till I got it My brother could not remember anything. I says cant I tell you a circumstance? but his intelect seemed to be gone. I cited to him this case of Hiram Smith talking in the harvest field, & he says I do remember that now, but it was gone I would never have thought of it again. I says, it was in the spring of 1827 that I went there; He thought a minite & said: "I guess it was"
Says I you know father died in 1825 & says I he died in the fall & it was two years from that spring that I first saw Rigdon. Judging from the time that they made that large quantity of sugar in that year
E.L.K. Dont you think you might have been mistaken as to the date?
L.S. (Excited) No, sir, I am not mistaken I will tell you that if you are a Mormon I dont tolerate Mormonism, I say that I have nothing against that family at all: But say so far as Mormonism is concerned I do not tolerate it at all. The first that Mormonism was started there I investigated it from top to bottom & I found it out to be a humbug. I do not think Joseph Smith ever got any plates or ever had any plates. He got a glass box. I saw where the box was that was all. They claimed it was in that box. Now, if the plates was the thickness of tin the box could not hold one quarter of them.
E.L.K. you aided Tucker in getting out his book
L.S. Why yes cited them to some dates. I was there & he had a sister that was very sick & died soon after that I came away & staied there 3 weeks, so I was into Tuckers out & in. So you see how far he had advanced in his book I could not tell. I never asked him one word about Sydney Rigdon being there. He wrote to Sidney Rigdon to try to get something out of him; It was generally said that the Mormons had shut his mouth by paying him a pension to keep him silent We was coming from Palmyra I said I do not know Sidney Rigdon if that was Sidney Rigdon down there I did not know him
E.L. In the house when you saw him afterwards & heard him preach could you identify him?
L.S. No, I could not I was not near enough to see his face before I heard him preach. Joseph Smith & this well dressed man stopped & talked with Peter Ingersoll. That was the time that Peter Ingersol told Jo. Smith, he guessed he had not got any plates the neighbors say it is all a humbug. Jo. Smith said: "what if it is now I have got the fools caught. This man was with him at the time & after we past on, I asked Peter Ingersol who that man was? & he said, it was Rigdon. That was in 1827 late in the fall
E.L.K. So you saw Rigdon in 1827? A. Yes sir. Is not it possible that it was in 1830?
Mr. L.S. No. because it was when Jo. Smith claimed to get the plates. Jo. Smith told the story but he told so many stories, it was a hard thing to get the fact in any way or shape. (2:157-59)
L.S. . . . Cobb at Utah wrote three letters to me. I did not send him an affidavit. I wrote him off a statement with what I could remember throughout. I then lived a mile south of here. And just as I got it ready, I had not sealed it up, my house took fire & burned up & everything I had; And no insurance. And that burned up the papers. I had no chance & I thought I was not doing justice not to reply to matters, so I did, and set down & wrote a short list of my misfortunes; & why I had replied to him before, but not anything of amount to him or anybody els.
E.L. You sent it to Cobb A. Yes sir. (2:162)
7. Lorenzo Saunders, Letter to Thomas Gregg, 28 January 1885
Charles A. Shook, The True Origin of the Book of Mormon (Cincinnati, Ohio: Standard Publishing Co., 1914)
I saw Sidney Rigdon in the Spring of 1827, about the middle of March. I went to Smiths to eat maple sugar, and I saw five or six men standing in a group and there was one among them better dressed than the rest and I asked Harrison Smith who he was (and) he said his name was Sidney Rigdon, a friend of Joseph's from Pennsylvania. I saw him in the Fall of 1827 on the road between where I lived and Palmyra, with Joseph. I was with a man by the name of Jugegsah [Ingersoll] (spelling doubtful, C.A.S. [Shook]) who he was and he said it was Rigdon. Then in the summer of 1828 I saw him at Samuel Lawrence's just before harvest. I was cutting corn for Lawrence and went to dinner and he took dinner with us and when dinner was over they went into another room and I didn't see him again till he came to Palmyra to preach. . . . Smith and Rigdon had an intimacy but it was very secret and still and there was a mediator between them and that was Cowdery. The Manuscripts was stolen by Rigdon and modelled over by him and then handed over to Cowdery and he copied them and Smith sat behind the curtain and handed them out to Cowdery and as fast as Cowdery copied them, they was handed over to Martin Harris and he took them to Egbert Grandin, the one who printed them, and Gilbert set the type. (3:177-79)
8. Lorenzo Saunders, Statement to Arthur B. Deming, 21 July 1887 (only statement published in Saunders's lifetime)
That my father died on the 10th day of October, A.D. 1825. That In March of 1827, on or about the 15th of said month I went to the house of Joseph Smith for the purpose of getting some maple sugar to eat, that when I arrived at the house of said Joseph Smith, I was met at the door by Harrison Smith, Jo's brother. That at a distance of ten or twelve rods from the house there were five men that were engaged in talking, four of whom I knew, the fifth one was better dressed than the rest of those whom I was acquainted with. I inquired of Harrison Smith who the stranger was? He informed me his name was Sidney Rigdom with whom I afterwards became acquainted and found to be Sidney Rigdon. This was in March, A.D. 1827, the second spring after the death of my father. I was frequently at the house of Joseph Smith from 1827 to 1830. That I saw Oliver Cowdery writing, I suppose the "Book of Mormon" with books and manuscripts laying on the table before him; that I went to school to said Oliver Cowdery and know him well. (2:213)
There is no doubt but the ex-parson from Ohio is the author of the book which was recently printed and published in Palmyra, and passes for the new Bible (3:289)They were called translations, but in fact and in truth they are believed to be the work of the Ex-Preacher from Ohio, who stood in the background and put forward Joe to father the new bible and the new faith. (3:290)
2. R. W. Alderman, Affidavit to Arthur B. Deming, 25 December 1884
In February, 1852, I was snowbound in a hotel in Mentor, Ohio, all day. Martin Harris was there, and in conversation told me he saw Jo Smith translate the "Book of Mormon," with his peep-stone in his hat. Oliver Cowdery, who had been a school-teacher, wrote it down. Sidney Rigdon, a renegade preacher, was let in during the translation. Rigdon had stolen a manuscript from a printing office in Pittsburgh, Pa., which Spaulding, who had written it in the early part of the century, had left there to be printed, but the printers refused to publish it, but Jo and Rigdon did, as the "Book of Mormon." Martin said he furnished the means, and Jo promised him a place next to him in the church. When they had got all my property they set me out. He said Jo ought to have been killed before he was; that the Mormon[s] committed all sorts of depredations in the towns about Kirtland. They called themselves latter-day Saints, but he called them Latter-day Devils. (2:294-95)
3. W. A. Lillie, Statement to Arthur B. Deming, 7 March 1885
About 1834 Mr. Pearne, of Chester, told me he used to live in the neighborhood of the Mormon Smith family in Palmyra, N.Y., and was well acquainted with all of them. He said they were a low family and of no account in the community. He told me the summer before Jo Smith, the Mormon prophet, first came to Ohio, he often saw Jo Smith and Rigdon together. It was the first he knew of Rigdon, and it was before the "Book of Mormon" was published. He saw Smith and Rigdon start together in a buggy for Ohio. Mr. Pearne knew Rigdon well after coming to Ohio and said he believed he (Rigdon) was at the bottom of Mormonism. My father borrowed the "Book of Mormon" and when he had finished reading it laughed and remarked Rigdon had done pretty well. (2:188-89)
4. Isaac Butts, Statement to Arthur B. Deming, March 1885
Many persons whom I knew in New York joined the Mormons and came to Kirtland. They told me they saw Sidney Rigdon much with Jo Smith before they became Mormons, but did not know who he was until they came to Kirtland. (2:203)
5. S. F. Anderick, Statement to Arthur B. Deming, 24 June 1887
He [Joseph Smith] was from home much summers. Sometimes he said he had been to Broome County, New York, and Pennsylvania. Several times while I was visiting Sophronia Smith at old Jo's house, she told me that a stranger who I saw there several times in warm weather and several months apart, was Mr. Rigdon. At other times the Smith children told me that Mr. Rigdon was at their house when I did not see him. I did not read much in the "Book of Mormon" because I had no confidence in Jo. Palmyra people claimed that Jo did not know enough to be the author of the "Book of Mormon," and believed that Rigdon was its author. I was acquainted with most of the people about us, and with Martin Harris. (2:210)